El Grande Testifying About Genaro Garcia Luna at La Reina’s Sentencing (Partial)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Barragan - cross by Lopez 54 investigations. Q. While you worked for these various cartels, you've become aware that these cartels had made payments all the way up to the chain almost to the president of Mexico; is that right? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And that's how these cartels conducted business in Mexico, correct? A. That is how they do it, sir. Q. Now, there came a point in time when Arturo was using offshore power boats to move product; is that right? A. That's correct, sir. Q. Submarines as well; is that right? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And these boats would meet vessels in international waters, and they would load up the cocaine and bring it to the shore; is that right? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And within a period of six or seven months, a lot of these vessels were being seized; is that right? A. Some, yes, but actually, I couldn't tell you for sure, sir. Q. Okay. Well, do you remember on February 19th of 2015 that you had a meeting with the people that I just talked about, and you told them there was a period of six to seven months where numerous go-fast boats as well as semi-submersibles were seized by the U.S. government while en route to Mexico with Case: 1:17-cr-00084 Document #: 74 Filed: 09/11/19 Page 54 of 184 PageID #:490

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Barragan - cross by Lopez 55 cocaine loads. Do you remember saying that? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And what I want to know is, these were seizures that were by the United States, by the DEA, and not by any Mexican police; isn't that true? A. That's correct, sir. They were in international waters. In Mexico, there were no seizures because of the corruption. Q. No, I understand that, and that's the point I'm trying to make. THE COURT: He made it for you. MR. LOPEZ: Thank you. THE COURT: Move on. BY MR. LOPEZ: Q. So Arturo was concerned that there was a leak in the organization; is that right? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And he directed El Borrado to talk to Luis Cardenas Palomino about that problem; isn't that right? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And there was a meeting that was called at the place you previously described as Mi Ranchito. Do you remember that? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And that was in Cuernavaca near Mexico City, correct? A. Yes, the second meeting, yes, sir. Q. And present at the meeting were Cardenas Palomino, Arturo, Case: 1:17-cr-00084 Document #: 74 Filed: 09/11/19 Page 55 of 184 PageID #:491

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Barragan - cross by Lopez 56 Borrado, Mario Pineda Villa -- you also would call him "MP," correct? A. Mario Pineda Villa was not at the second meeting, sir. Q. I'm talking about, after El Borrado asked Palomino for assistance, there was a meeting. That's what you told the DEA, right? A. At the first meeting, yes, sir. Q. And at that meeting, there was another person, the nickname Conejo, C-o-n-e-j-o. Do you remember him? A. Yes, possibly he was there. I don't remember right now exactly. Q. Would you like to see a copy of the statement which you gave to the DEA to help you refresh your recollection? A. Yes, sir. MR. LOPEZ: Judge, I'm going to mark this as Azarte 1. Judge, I'm going to direct him and maybe -- THE COURT: Yes, direct him. MR. LOPEZ: It's in English, so can the interpreter interpret for him -- THE COURT: If he needs help. BY MR. LOPEZ: Q. Can you read English? A. No, sir. I don't read or speak English, sir. Q. So would you need the interpreter to help you read -- to Case: 1:17-cr-00084 Document #: 74 Filed: 09/11/19 Page 56 of 184 PageID #:492

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Barragan - cross by Lopez 57 interpret it for you? A. Yes, please. MR. LOPEZ: Okay. Judge, I'm going to -- I've already talked to the government. I'm going to direct the interpreter to, if you could just -- if you could just interpret that box. THE INTERPRETER: Translate that for him right now? MR. LOPEZ: Not on the record. (Translation off the record.) BY MR. LOPEZ: Q. All right. Is your memory refreshed? A. That's correct, sir. Q. So Conejo was at the meeting, correct? A. Possibly, sir, as I mentioned there. Q. Now, at that meeting, Cardenas Palomino told the group that he had spoken to his compadre, Genaro Garcia Luna? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And he had been informed that there was a Colombian informant working within the Beltran Leyva cartel? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And then Cardenas Palomino provided the informant's name and nickname; is that right? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And this is the same Colombian informant that was later murdered; is that right? Case: 1:17-cr-00084 Document #: 74 Filed: 09/11/19 Page 57 of 184 PageID #:493

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Barragan - cross by Lopez 58 A. That's correct, sir. Q. And during your interview on February 19th, 2015, you told the DEA that according to Cardenas Palomino that Garcia Luna had obtained this information from Garza Palacios. Do you remember that? A. That's correct, sir. Q. Who you might -- who you think is Francisco Javier Garza Palacios, correct? A. That's correct, sir. Q. Who was a Mexican federal police officer stationed in Bogota? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And then after learning the identity of the informant, Borrado ordered El Panchito to go get the informant and bring him to him; is that right? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And the informant was taken from Cuernavaca by Borrado and MP? A. They were in the city of Cuernavaca, the informant. Q. But they took him, right, and tortured him? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And you learned that the informant admitted he'd been arrested in Miami and was cooperating? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And Arturo took all the informant's properties? Case: 1:17-cr-00084 Document #: 74 Filed: 09/11/19 Page 58 of 184 PageID #:494

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Barragan - cross by Lopez 59 A. That's correct, sir. Q. And then he killed him or he had him killed? A. That's correct, sir. Q. You didn't know the informant, did you, or did you? A. No, sir. Q. You had never met him? A. No, sir, not that I remember, no. Q. You weren't present when the informant was killed, were you? A. I was not present, sir. THE COURT: How much more do you have? MR. LOPEZ: A couple more minutes. THE COURT: A couple minutes? MR. LOPEZ: Yes. Do you want to take a break? THE COURT: No. If it's only a few minutes, let's finish it. Then we'll take a short break. BY MR. LOPEZ: Q. Sir, after the informant was killed, no more boats were stopped; is that right? A. No, sir, not that I know of, no. Q. Now, do you remember, you came -- that you had an interview here in this building on August 20th, 2018? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you were shown a photograph. Do you remember that? A. Yes, sir. Case: 1:17-cr-00084 Document #: 74 Filed: 09/11/19 Page 59 of 184 PageID #:495